Motion: “Music and Art classes should be reduced”
Presented by Lucía López González
It´s a fact that nowadays the amount of hours dedicated to subjects like Mathematics, Chemistry and Physics are much more than the hours dedicated to Music and Art at school. Furthermore, they are being reduced more and more in each education reform.
I know that we live in a industrialized society and I also understand the beneficts and, of course, I know that technology is essential. However, don´t you consider that art is essential too? In my opnion, art formation at school is vital, waht is more, it develops different mental and physical capacities.
I can´t imagine a world without music, literature, painting, architecture, sculpture, poetry, films or theatre. I mean, I can´’t imagine a world without emotion, passion, feelings and pleasure. Art is a kind of language and it´s communication and expression.
Everybody we should be introduced in these areas, otherwise how could we understand, enjoy and admire artistic works?
I´ve heard that art is nonsense and useless, are you of this opinion?
Comments»
I´ver heard comments like this a lot of times and I disagree at all,because art,music,poetry even cinema culture are very important.I´m studying my degree and I had to choose some subjects and one of them is about cinema:it´s history,how a film is made…this world is not always maths,physics or technology!!If you travel and visit monuments you will enjoy more if you have knowledges about art,history or even mythology it is so interesting!!
Music and Art give ‘colour’ to life. If the educational system is only concerned by technology, the next generations will have lost some of the most genuine charasteristic of human being and the world will be, without doubt, much less esthethic.
I’m totally for a reduction of Music and Art classes in schools. Why? Because we have to make priorities in life. First of all students should have a very good command of Writing and Maths. Likewise, of course, we can’t forget subjects such as Physical Education, History, Technology and Science, therefore Music and Art classes should be reduced (not abandoned, of course). And if students want to develop their artistic skills then let’s direct them to extracurricular lessons. If we don’t want our students to be situated at the bottom of the international educational rates it is better if we spend most of the time on the most important things.
Nerd, if you reduce Art classes, you will be lossing an essential part of your life as a Human Being.
Art is an universal language. The mission of schools is to train students to use this
Language — to understand and use by their own symbols according to a flexible set of rules: perspective and colours in painting, volume in sculpture…
If you don’t know, what a picture (for example, the “Guernica” of Picasso) is saying, you are loossing information and the opportunity of sharing your ideas about Peace, War, Love, Respect, Life, Diversity, and so on.
I hope that no culture could be so cruel to its kids and teenagers as to ban them of enjoying those marvellous ways of human expression! We need, I’ve said NEED, to express ourselves and our feelings.
I´m agree with pollock.Nerd why should we reduce art or music lessons?I think you are wrong, art is CULTURE TOO.Your argument about developing your artistic skills outside the school doesn´t work because if we follow this,we only should be taught how to add and some basic rules and then develope your skills outside the shool.We need art and music if you want to express yourself,will you do it through maths or physics?If you go outside would you know its culture through maths too?I don´t think so.
I’ve read all the comments and I defenitely agree with Nerd. Spanish education is always at the bottom of the european rates… and I think that is because we make the students wate their time. Art? Music? I love both, but in the high school i hardly ever learnt nothing about them. Most of the time of my music and arts lessons was just an stupid entertainment!! I tell the ones that support the arts and music lessons that you should go and attend one of these classes in a high school, then you will see that reality is not so beautiful as you say.
Although I’m studying sciences,I have to say that subjects like music and art are essential.Yes,our world is moved by technology but we shouldn’t be so matherialistic.Taking care of the ’soul’ (or whatever you want to call our feelings and thoughts) is one of the most important things you can achieve in life.Nowadays kids don’t know enough about the historical and cultural roots of their country.Most of their parents just don’t mind as they don’t feel it’s important.I strongly disagree with this silly feeling of superiority when people talk about technology.Let’s balance…let’s bring children enough Maths and Chemistry,but also Art and History.I think it’s possible if we try hard.
Blue Apple, I’m afraid I don’t understand well your point of view. I thought we’re talking about Art and Music classes in general, not in Spain. In this case, I must agree with you that our currently Education System is… well, not as good as it should be. But I would like to think that if our Governments takes seriously such an important topic as Education is, Art and Music classes will be better and, of course, useful, and we’ll enjoy it. We don’t need to become artists, but we should know why Art is important in our life and in our relationships.
What do you do in those classes? Don’t you study History of Art? Don’t you talk about what Art is (them and now) and what the function of artists in the society is? Don’t you compare the achievements of Goya and Beethoven, for example? Maybe things have changed too much since I finished my high school days…
Although I think Science, Maths or languages are very important, I believe that Music and Art are essential too. I completely disagree with “The nerd” when he/she says that we must have our priorities in life. Of course there are some basic and elementary things that we should know, but Music and Art are culture too!! And, what is more, nowadays they are compulsory only to the third year of secondary school. I remember when I was at high school and it was time for one of these subjects, it was great! You were learning things but, at the same time, it was a bit more relaxing and enjoyable.
Well, Pollock , I don’t know how much time has passed by since you finished your school days… but I have to tell you that nowadays music and arts lessons in high schools are a completely waste of time.
And I don’t say that maths or other subjects are more important, and I’m not saying either thar arts and music should be reduced.
I’m saying they nedd to be re-enfocated! They are a waste of time now, and that’a a pity! The educational sistem nedds a change now!
Don’t you think??
Yes, Blue Apple, as I have told before, I agree with you that our Educational System should be “repaired”. How? I don’t have the answer, who really has it?
And while here in Spain we’re arguing and wasting our student’s time, in North Europe countries they have had the same Educational System for ages, I suppose because it works! Maybe we should ask them for some advices…
In my opinion I think that Arts are subjects to waste your time. When you are a child everything is beautiful singing ang playing some instruments during music lessons, but really you are wasting your time. Time is gold! So if in the future you want to be someone important and dedicate your life to something important, DON`T STUDY ARTS, it’s for your future benefit. Now it’s your time to choose your way of life!!!
I didn’t say that!!!
We have a bug on this blog!
I don’t know what happened, because the comment had Pollock’s name and e-mail adress, and it was identical to the one posted by ooooooo (who, by the way, has written with different names in the debates).
I have deleted it and I’ll check identities more carefully from now on.
Computers! they have been made to help us with our problems…but in fact most of the time they “are” our problems, haha.
Thank you for checking the answer, Maria
When you are an adult I think It’s easier to appreciate music and arts but was it the same when you were a teenager at secondary school?, Did you love studying symphonies by Beethoven or renaissance music instruments? I can’t believe it, at least for most of students. I have a close friend who teaches music at a public school and sometimes she’s desperate because students misbehave all the time. They think that music (obviously classic music is more than 80% of the curriculum) is an unimportant subject and the only music they want to listen to is the same modern music they are listening to at home.
Nowadays music teaching at school shouldn´t be like that. It´s true that, at the very beginning, music lessons were to say classical music lessons. They were about solfeos´s rules and memorizing dates, names….that´s hard and boring most of all for kinds.
But in the last few years (more or less from the middle of last century) this has been changing (very slowly, it´s true).
Only then did musicians and psychologists realized that practice should be before theory and, furthermore, that learning in that way contributed to develop communication, mathematical, logistical and other kind of skills that are essential in childhood develop.
That´s the reason why nowadays music is at school from 3 to 15 more or less and the most part of this subject pretends to offer kids different ways of living music. So, no longer does musical education have to be boring or hard for kids (if they have a good teacher).
I totally disagree with “the Nerd”.In many of the developed countries we try to imitate nowadays, Music and Art are basic subjects and they have an important role, so it is not the reason why we are at the bottom of educational rates. They are a way of self expression and help us to understand the world and reflect about it.
Hello classmates. I see that many of you disagree with me…
I’d like to give you an important fact about our students’ achievements in class. According to international educational reports, Spanish students are not able to read 3 lines without getting lost.
So, don’t you think it is better if they spend their time in school working on basic skills like reading and maths instead of painting, sculpture and Beethoven?
I insist that, to me, what students need is to be good al basic skills and leave Art and Music as voluntary and optional subjects.
Well, as someone is growing up, it is important to take part in as many subjects as possible (not only at school but in life too). For instance, University students who are specialized in one field, for example Science: just think about what you knew about History when you where at school, and now you probably don’t. I mean, the more you focus in any subject, the more knowledge you loose of the others (unless you study them on your own).
Besides, in ancient cultures, there were extremely important to know about Maths and Music too. It is true that our system needs to be changed, but I don’t consider in reducing subjects, it has no sense.
I think these subjects should be reduced because children are wasting their time doing nothing. When I think about my schooldays, I realise I have not learn anything useful in arts or music. In music classes we spent an hour or so playing an instrument or listening to classic music, and in art classes we painted with watercolours or something like that. Although I loved these classes, now I notice that I had preferred to spend that time learning English for example.
I do not say that arts or music must disappear at all, but I think we must make priorities.
I understand what you want to say nerd, but despite of everything, I still think that little kids must know something about Art and Music. Of course we have to learn basic things (like reading) perfectly, but when you are a child there are some things you should be taught because they will help you to develop your knowledge in the future, and from my view, some of them are Art and Music.
I´m in favour or Art and Music classes. I think that everybody should learn this subjects at school. If you don´t have any knowledge about them, how can you appreciate music, painting…? and who is going to asist to concerts? you can’t be interest in something if you don’t know it!
abbey some of us think that these subjects should be reduced, not disappear and it is not the same. Moreover, you say something that I do not understand: “and who is going to asist to concerts?”. Do you think music that young people listen to is learnt in Music classes?
Hi Pineapple. You said that you didn’t learn anything when you were taught these subjects. I dare say that it is not like this. Perhaps, you knew (or you know now) how to play the flute or how to mix colours in order to make others, and that is thanks to these ones. Therefore, although they aren’t the most important subjects at school, they are necessary. What is more, children need “softer” subjects in order to improve their imagination and artistic sense, so I vote for Music and Arts don’t be reduced!!
Popi do you think to play the flute is useful in your life? I think I could survive without it hahaha.
On the other hand, I know children need time to chill out and improve their imagination, but to my mind If they improve other skills which are more important (English, Maths, Reading…) they will be grateful to in the future.
Hi Pineapple. Playing the flute or any musical instrument might be useful if you want to be your job when you grow up. I mean, during your school period, you do not know whether all the subjects are going to worth or not. For instance, when I was at the high school I really loathed studying Philosophy. However, I am aware of the importance of learning about our ancient culture, even tough I am not going to use it for the rest of my life.
I can’t believe what I’ve read, how can you say that Music and Art are a “waste of time”? I completely disagree. All things that we learn are important, because they are culture.
The nerd and Blue apple, you say Music and Art hours must be reduced to benefit other subjects. Sincerely, do you use in your common life what you’ve learnt at Maths class, you use those formulas and theories? In my opinion the subject of Maths it isn’t correctly taught because students have to learn loads of things but at the end nobody knows how to use it, they only memorize. You also say that nowadays Music and Arts aren’t taught correctly but in my opinion that’s the fault of students who think they aren’t important subjects.
No way! Art lessons should not be reduced (rather increased).
In my opinion educational systems should turn to a more rational approach. Learning things by memory is useless and what the different subjects should provide are ideas and habits for reasoning in that stuff. Under this point of view Arts are esential because sometimes art is intuitive knowledge but many other you need specific notions to appreciate it properly.
Manuel, do you really think that art lessons aren’t learn by memory? Do you think that’s intuitive knowledge that Claude Monet painted the poppies in Argenteuil in 1873? Because in my opinion memory is the only thing students need to pass art subjets.
I don’t agree with you, memory in art isn’t very important, what you need is drawing properly, having a bit of imagination and sensibility. Art isn’t memorizing at all, you must have practical skills. It’s the same for Music, there are things that you can memorize but others are practical. Because of that is important that someone teach young people to develop that skills, not to be a great painter or musician, only to have new knowledge and skills.
Well Koby, you have been lucky if you had a teacher who evaluated your “imagination and sensibility” because mines were only worried about if we had scored more than a five in the exam, where all the questions come from our class book. If you memorize the lesson you pass. I think that’s what happen in most of schools.
I agree with all of you who support the idea to keep Music and Art classes because they not only help us to enjoy our world but also to give us the opportunity to express our ideas, feelings, worries and to denounce plenty of situations. I like what Xil says: “Music and Art give colour to our lives”. We need to stimulate our senses and definitely, it´s not the same to look at a landscape in black and white that to see it in colour. Besides, we shouldn´t forget that Music is one of the most antique ways of expression that humankind has been using since Prehistory. If Art in general had´t been so important men in Prehistory wouldn´t have use it. This makes me think that Art exists since the man is man, it´s a natural and innate condition of mankind to find new ways to represent its inner world, it´s a need as important as other vital needs.
From my point of view, learning by heart that “Claude Monet painted the poppies in Argenteuil in 1873″ is a stupid thing. What you should learn is why that canvas is important, why is Monet a remarcable painter or what were the new achievements of the Impressionism painting.
Learning just dates and names is a waste of time that some proffessors at the university of Oviedo still doing: becoming their students a 2-legs version of a book.
Art classes should be more than that…
What I really mean is that it is much more important understanding knowledge than memoryzing it. In addition, you need sensibility to appreciate Arts but I don´t feel memory is usefull at all (further than History of Arts, which is other issue).
However, Arts lessons are extremely important and should be kept in educational systems.
I think that art and music lessons are as important as any other subjet.
Childrens at school have to study all kind of things and they will decide in the future what they want to do for a living. We can’t say for example that maths are more important than music, it all depends of what you want to do in the future, if you want to be a mathematician of course maths are more important for you but if you want to be a musician it’s obvious that music is more important for you. I’ve studied lots of complicated maths and chemistry things that I think I’m not going to need in my whole life and on the contrary I’ve learnt things about art that I use frecuently.
Furthermore this kind of subjets give you an entertaining time at school and you don’t study only boring subjets, at least art was my favourite subjet when I was at shool and the one in which I used to stand out.
It catches my attention what The nerd and Blue Apple say about priorities in life and that the Art lessons turn to be a stupid entertainment. I don´t think that the matter will be to choose between Science and Art because both things are interrelated; Music and Architecture are based on Maths, Painting is based on Science, etc. So, you can practise and learn Maths, Science and History through the Art classes and Music. In fact, during the Renaissance, many artists were also scientists or vice versa. What would Leonardo Da Vinci think of reducing the Art classes?. It seems that nowadays only the immediate and practical things are important. A good degree is the one that gives you the possibility of earning a lot of money (the easier and faster you earn the money the better is your degree). But we shouldn´t forget that the humanistic thing tells us who we are, where we come from and it places us in the world, it joins us to some of the things and separates us from other ones. All in all, the humanistic thing gives sense to our lives.
Yes Diana, probably I’ve had good teachers, and it’s true that teachers can teach the same subject in different ways. Because of that I think Music and Art must be taught in a different way, with more practice.
Music and Art classes shouldn’t be banned because they are quite important as Science, Maths or Chemistry can be. I only eliminate useless subjects as Technology and Physic Education; they only are a waste of time while you need it to study other important things. But this is a question of organization in the High Schools depending on the Governments.
I totally agree with Rantamplan’s opinion: everything depends on everything, you can’t use only Music without thinking that you need to use Maths, and if you want to paint you use Chemistry.
The fact that you are working on a scientific industry, is not necessary to avoid learning humanity subjects as Art, Music, Architecture, History of Art, etc…. The knowledge doesn’t fill space. We need to be cultured people.
Hi! What can I say? Arts and Music were and are made by human beings so they’re part of our culture and they should be learnt.
Yes, a large number of my clasmates agreed with the fact that Arts and Music classes are very often nowadys a mess! However, from my point of view, this happens because of they aren’t so valued like Sciences and that’s another problem. Whereas young people (and some elder ones) consider Maths and Phisics are extremely difficult but cool because an engineer would earn good money, it is said that those who prefer humanities studies will be considered futur unemployed people or weird people.
I’ve had an Arts teacher who was proud of his subject and he worked very hard to teach us how human beings have looked for the beauty hidden in a rock’s core!!! And also what of those men and women mentalities they were trying to say. If we loose that language and we don’t try to learn it, we’ll be unable to understand our past and our present, what an artist from a dictatorial country has tried to say without saying it.
I don’t agree with Diana Fernandez. She said that art is a subjet that you have to memorize, you have to memorize things when you study art history, but I think that this debate is about art at school.
I have no idea what Diana used to do in her art lessons, but when I was at school my art lessons used to be all practise.
I agree with Indie because I don´t think that art lessons have to be so bored. When I went to school, it was seven years ago, all my art lessons used to be very practice unless you are studying a technical degree and you need to have much knowledge about geometry. I know what I am talking about because I`m studying engineering.
I totally disagree with the people who defend that subjects like art,music,…are basic at school. From my point of view these subjects are not very useful in our days because it is very difficult to work as a painter,writter or musician, you have to be the best if you want to live from this. In my opinion these disciplines have to be cultivated as a hobbie in our free time. I have to recognize that it is very beautiful to read a good book or to listen a fantastic song but in this case only the best can suceed so I think that it is more important to teach maths,chemistry or physics to the children because it will be more useful from them than arts or musics.
Palot:maths,chemistry,physics…and what about Spanish language,history or languages in general?and other thing do you know anyone who had study chemistry and works only in his lab “discovering´´things or anyone who had study maths and know is “making´´ formulas??Is the same you that you has applied with music and art.
Palot, please excuse if I’m too much rude and blunt, but you mussn’t tell anybody what he/she should study just in terms of being “useful”. I’m very proud of my Art studies and they have been very useful for me, because I’m living from them (and I’m living very well). In fact, nowadays having a degree on Economics or being technical engineer doesn’t mean you could find a good job in a short time… it could be as “difficult” as being an artist, don’t you think so?
Palot I think that you can’t decide what the children are going to be in the future. You said that chemistry for example is more useful than art, but for me what I learnt about chemistry is not useful at all now. If everybody would think as Palot we would live in a really boring world without art, music…
I am not saying that this kind of subjects are not important. From my point of view all subjects are equally important. One thing that is very important for me is that people have to cultivate those subjects interesting for them. This is why there are so many degrees. Another thing but totally different to the previous ones is that this humanity degrees are now in a low moment.
As Eileen has said most people want to work in technical jobs because it is supposed that you earn a lot of money, I don`t think so, for me the most important thing is being happy what the things you are doing without looking what type of degree you have chosen.
Hi Palot, I totally disagree with you. As Indie had said, you can not choose what a little child is going to study in the future so you can’t make him to study only some specific subjects. What I mean is not that they must learn it during their whole stay in the high school, but they should for some years.
What I mean in my former comment was that nowadays art subjets are also theoretical. I remember people really gifted at painting or singuing that never get good marks in those subjets. I don’t know, but maybe because is easier for the teacher evaluating an exam that a draw objectively. That’s why I think they should be reduced, because this “History of Art” is not esential.
Well Diana I do agree with you because I think that lessons are too theorical because it is easier for teachers. Front my point of view lessons should be more practical than they used to be and with this thing I am sure that pupils would be happier when they go to school.
Maybe you are right saying that artistic subjects taught in a practical way would be enjoyed by the student, but can you tell a teacher how he is supposed to teach? He’d probably continues doing the same, maybe thinking that’s the best way to do it.
I’ve been thinking about what you have written but I don’t know exactly if you are talking about secondary or primary school. Do you think that “History of Art” is not essential in secondary school or in primary school? I think that, as in other arts or sciences, theorical and practical things has to go very close together, I mean, you live and experiment something and, when your mind is ready, you can put those experiences in order (that’s the theory) and history could help you to do that. That’s the reason why I think that history is very interesting in the learning process. It shows you different ways of making art (or arts) and the reason why this particular way did exist and exits.
To avoid this kind of things I think that teachers should be taught that they not only have to teach teorical knowledge they also have to improve pupils´ practical skills. It has to be since the bottom to the top of education.
I am not saying that these subjects should not be studied at school, they are as important as maths or physics and I am not interested on decide the future of the chidren. What I want to say is that you could not live from the money you earn if you are a normal painter, this is a very difficult profession and in other professions like economist, teacher or doctor you don´t have to be the best, you can live perfectly with the money you earn.
To show you what I want to say I will give you an example; these type of profession like writer or painter are the same as the profession of football player, in football is very difficult to triumph, only the best players get his dream so in any case I want to discredit this profession.
I don´t still understand very well what all this is about. When we are students at school there are subjects there are simply subjects that we don´t like but we have to study.
We all have different preferences about those subjects, but they prepare us for a future degree or career.
If we only studied those subjects we consider “important”, many people wouldn´t find a way for the future.
I have particularly hated Maths, but I understand that it is important to have a knowledge, although I have never used it. And it is the same for Arts and Music. If a student didn´t have a basic formation on those subjects, maybe a future Beethoven or Picasso wouldn´t be found out.
I do agree with Mr.Excusas and Diana as not only Music and Art classes but also education in general is too theoretical.I strongly disagree with this common consideration as we all know that remembering dates and lessons as if we were machines is useless.It really drives me mad…we need a change!
You are right; learning by heart is not useful at all. The only think I remember about the Renaissance Art from my University lessons is that “Brunelleschi was born in 1377”. Luckily, I’ve read books by my own and now I have more knowledge about that period of time…
This is what I was explaining to you, when you learn something by heart and you don´t use it for much time you will forgot it. Meanwhile if you leran something usefull and you find an application for it you will remember it for more time.
After reading some of your comments I have to say that I agree with those who think that music and arts should be reduced but not in those terms because I don’t think that these subjects are a waste of time. I`m not going to say if I like science or arts in order to avoid people think I’m only say this or that because I like one or another subject. I only think that government should give children the chance to choose one or another way in an earlier age, not when they were in front of the doors of the university when they were seventeenth years old, but when they were thirteenth years old.
In the present education system a student who likes science used to study History and Music as well as Math and Physics and he has to make physical exercise in Gymnastic too and the same with a student who loves arts and music, who is really bored when he saw a chemical equation. It’s a pity that you lose your time studying a subject you hate and that you are not going to see anymore in your life.
I think parents should be aware of this problem that makes our children hate Mathematics, for example, because they prefer to study another subject which usually has no relationship with any scientific discipline, and that will be more useful in their future life.
I strongly disagree with you, Warlok. Studying or doing things in anybody´s early education (or even life) could never be a waste of time. Are you sure that all we already know our likes and dislikes when we are just childs? I think that, at that age, our personality is growing up and we need as much experiences and stimulations as possible . How could a child decide whether or not he or she does want to study this or that curriculum and doesn´t the other? In that case some of them would choose only the funniest things, others the things that would be easyer for them and so on. How many people do you know that has been keeping the same hobbyes (for not to enter in work´s subject) since their childhood?