Motion: “What should be done with the schizophrenia problem?”
Presented by Claudia de Zárraga
I want to propose a new motion for the debates:
What should be done with the schizophrenia problem?
I suppose you all have heard about the schizophrenic guy who, after years of agressions, killed his mother in a brutal way. That has made that lots of mothers with the same problem decided to talk about her daily situation.
I was surprised to discover that, because I used to think that there were a perfect therapy to fight schizophrenia, and that the problems only starts when they stop taking their medication. In fact, schizophrenia is a mental illness without a cure. There are antipsychotics that can reduce the symptoms. Psychological and social interventions could also help, and sometimes other kind of treatments (like electroconvulsive therapy) are indicated, but they aren’t the perfect solution either .
About the relationship between violent acts and schizophrenia, current research shows that the percentage of people with schizophrenia who commit violent acts is higher than the percentage of people without any disorder. But could something be done about it? I mean, other groups of people, like alcoholics, have also higher agression rates than the average.
What do you thing about it? Should there be specialised centres where schizophrenic people could be taken care of their whole life or is that bad for them as human beings? Should medication be compulsory and controlled, punishing people when they skip it or that goes against the person individual rights?
Here there is a link to see a youtube video where people tell their real history dealing with schizophrenia, and also doctors explains what schizophrenia is:
I also recomend you to look the comments made by the people in the video, because some of them are very interesting.
Comments»
The most important issue in this motion, at least for me, is that we cannot forget that schizophrenic people are not bad people(murderers…), but people, with one of the most fearsome illnesses. And it is because of that, their illness, that from time to time it happens what happened the other day in Gijon, as most of you probably would have heard about.
Taking into account those things I think that it’s completely unfair to treat this people as if they were delinquents and imprisoning them, not in jail, but in a madhouse (I doubt, there’s a difference between them). They have a problem, a very serious problem. They don’t need any kind of punishment, they only thing they need is help.
Of course they are not delinquents! However, they are illness people who need continuous medical treatment. Unfortunately, there are sometimes in which the problem goes beyond of the limits of good and safety living together, and it is highly recommendable that they have to stay in a “madhouse” (in fact I do not like this name). It is very hard, mainly for the family, because they don’t want to be separated from their sons. But, they need help, and this might be one way. Otherwise, what should you do if you have any member of your family who wants to kill you, although he or she loves you a lot? Would you live calm, or would you want your brother or sister to be cured?
This issue concerns me a lot because I´ve worked two years ago with people who suffer from this (and others) mental illness and maybe I´ll work next year again. That´s the reason why I can tell you that there are not so horrible places as you can suppose.
Personally, I don’t agree with you in what you say about mad-houses. First of all, nowadays that’s not the word used to name special places for mental illness, as well as they are not mad people but ill people.
There are some places where they compulsory go to study and improve their skills (EBO). There are also places where they learn how to develop some jobs they are qualified for (adult’s life preparation). Other kind of institutions are those appropriated for ill people to be there for different periods of time: morning, whole day, periods of time (when their family can´t properly take care of them); there, they have lots of things they need: people how know abut their illness, people to talk with, people who take care of them, people who supervise that they properly follow their medication…
I have also worked with that kind of people, and that’s why :
I don’t want them to be isolated from the rest of the world, in a madhouse. But don’t worry, I do know that those buildings are extinct, or near to be extinct.
And I don’t want people to think they WANT TO KILL, as that’s not true. You’ll know that in fact they are not violent people.
I do perfectly know about the programs and projects you talk about, and I think they are just great ideas. Unfortunately there’s not as much money as it would be necessary for these people.
As I said in my previous comment, I don’t consider this people like delinquents!!! And neither do I think they want to kill their relatives, because they DO NOT WANT to do it, for goodness’ shake. However, because of this horrible disease, they end up committing this action when it should have been avoided with the proper treatment, whether in special centres full time or during several hours.
I totally agree with Popi, that’s not a point about if you want or not to kill. The fact is that this illness could make you hurt other people, and if I were a schizophrenic I wouldn’t like doing it, I would prefer be helped in a “mad house”
Turning back to the motion’s issue, I absolutely agree with Claudia: it actually is a big problem. But, like other world’s problems, the most important thing is to be aware of them and not to forget them, doing our best to improve their consequences.
Fortunately, there is medication that avoids schizophrenic’s episodes. There is no problem with people who suffer from schizophrenia if they have their medication: they can do the same as healthy people.
So first thing we can do for them is to control this particular thing.
People’s quality of life is the priority here, so it’s necessary to combine family’s goodness and ill person’s one. In my opinion it’s necessary to find the way to assure that: I mean, helping families to take care of ill people (having the certainty that they have their medication every single day).
I agree with Popi. The poin’t here is not if you want or not to kill. The fact is that this illness could make you hurt other people. If I were a schizophrenic, I would like being help in a “mad house” if that make me less dangerous.
I am not so close to the subject as you are, although I’m interested on it.
I would like to ask what are the alternatives and the best treatment known. As it is a physiological illness, I supose the treatment is mostly based on pills and all that sort of things but, is there also some kind of psicological base?
In my opinion, they are prisoners of their own illness. Not being aware about the real world, should be very hard.
I know, schizophrenic people don´t want kill, they are not murderers but they are ill, and they need treatment.
It is known that there are differents degrees of that illness. Some of them can lead a normal life (with a treatment) but for the others more serious, the goverment should help them whit special centers.
Anyway, I think that it will cost so much, change people mind about mental diseases
Extreme situations are always dangerous and avoiding disasters before they come is a big issue.Schizophrenic people have to realize they have a problem,firstly (they don’t suffer from memory lost or unconsciousness).There are pills and therapies that National Health System can give them.I absolutely agree with Lollipop,as we can find very different degrees of this sickness and,as a result,they can’t be treated in the same way.The man who killed his mather obviously needed medical care and madhouse assesment.I don’t really know whose fault it is,but the fact is that anybody tryed seriously in order to avoid this cruel murder.
I absolutely agree with some comments: they’re not criminals. They’ve got a mental illness. But some questions. What should we do with them? Where should they stay? It were unfair, if they wouldn’t have any relationship with society? What do you think about?
Taking into account what is happening in the motion related to the senses, I do really find it difficult to believe what I’m going to say but…anyway: Lollipop I do agree with what you’ve said. Changing people’s mind about mental diseases is going to be really hard, and I don’t really understand why.
The problem with schizophrenia does start as soon as they abandon their treatment. It’s not an excuse but I understand that behaviour as schizophrenics people are not really aware about what’s happening. They believe that their hallucinations are real so…as they consider themselves to be at least not mad, they don’t consider the pills are necessary at all, and they just don’t follow the treatment. After that, it happens what you’ve read some times in the media.
What raises more my attention is the fact that what happens with schizophrenia seems to offend you (not offend but worry you), however when there’s an epileptic man/woman that don’t take their pills (because they consider themselves cured, when in fact they are not and they’ve been told that by their doctors) and as a consequence they have a crisis while they’re driving…and they kill other people…. many people would say; what a pity, poor man/ woman. ¿¿¿¿????? Those did know they had to take their pills, why on earth did they let them?
Schizophrenic people are ill people, don’t forget that, please.
By the way, Scaramuche , there’s good information about schizophrenia in the following direction
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/schizophrenia.html . I hope it helps you.
Nightwish, answering your questions, I think it is not necessary isolated them, I mean, there could be others solutions (depending on the degree of course) like for example a day centre .
The other day , on tv, I saw a report in the news.It was about a group of mental ills, who have a radio station. They consider that people have some misconceptions about this topic,and it damages them very much.For that, in their station, they make some programs where they try to make known the people, mental diseases.
For me this initiative is wonderful, I mean I admire anonymous people who recognise their illness, trying to finish stereotypes. They are helping our society ,not only mental ills
They are not criminals of course, but they are dangerous. People who are in the street do not have the blame of their illness and they can suffer its consecuences. For example, I remember a girl who was pushed in the underground in Madrid.
For me the best solution would be that people with serious problems could stay in a special place where a group of doctors nurses, ect supervises their treatments.
My uncle has schizophrenia, I´m going to talk with the vision of a family that have to live with a sick person.
He started to be ill at the age of twenty seven. At this time, he was still married and had got a little son. When the illness began to increase he and his wife split up and he moved with my grandmother. She had to look after him all her life.
The main problem is that my uncle has never been aware of his illness and he was always refusing to take his treatment. This fact made him aggressive in many times. Besides, he used to sleep all day and be awake at night so it was impossible to rest for my grandmother.
Other problems were that he refused to take a shower or wear clean clothes, he was always smoking and drinking coffee, he used to buy alcohol, he ate in a compulsive way, even some times he looked for things in the rubbish…etc. The consequence was that my grandmother had a big depression that made her had an extremely unhappy life.
Nowadays, my grandmother is died, and my father and my other uncle have had to look after him. The situation is worst, because the illness follows increase, and he needs someone who keeps an eye on him all day. I know that my family have made all that they could do for him; but also I know that It´s impossible to have an own life and look after him at the same time.
Other issue is that there aren´t enough help, for example in the whole west of Asturias there is only one psychiatrist, and when my uncle has a crisis he is moved to the San Agustin´s Hospital in Aviles, where he can stay one week maximum; then he come back to his houses but some times he is still ill.
There is a centre in Aviles, where schizophrenics are looked after by experts, the problem is that there are only 20 rooms, so it´s almost impossible to achieve a room for my uncle. Even one time, the doctor said to my father that my uncle is too sick to stay in this centre. Therefore, the only solution is paid a private centre but we can afford it.
I believe that the Government is wasting their time worried for stupid things, without putting solution to the really serious issues.
This is a difficult topic. Different (and sometimes opposite) interests and points of view have prevented finding a good solution for this problem
On one hand, families of patients claim centers for this patients to be in, at least for those periods when they are not under well control. This is also necesary for security reasons since it has been demonstrated that some patients might be dangerous for people in general but specially for their families and also for themselves.
On the other hand, human right defenders argue that these patients are sometimes unnecessary deprived of their freedom, specially some years ago when large centers used to shut mental ill patients away for long periods of time -even for their whole life-.
It seems clear that the solution is not easy. In my opinion a rational approach is needed: every patient has to be assessed both periodically and under special situations (for instance when the family refers worsening) and specific centers should be available to admit and treat these patients when necessary.
I´m completely shocked about what Tarantula told us. I can´t even imagine how life is for Tarantula and “its” family.
I have always wondered what could happen to those who suffer from that terrible illness when parents died.
I agree with Tarantula´s opinion about the way Government uses our money. There are thousand of problems, real problems, to be solved, such as helping these people and their families, instead of wasting money and time in preparing the Cibeles for the football championship, for example.
I agree with Tarantula. He knows this problem because he has to live with it. Of course the asylum, the hospital for insane patients, the madhouse, the lunatic house, the psychiatric hospital whatever were the names given to this institutions in the nineteenth century can’t exist nowadays because they were designed just to confine patients. However modern psychiatry can’t achieve a cure in 100% of people suffering severe schizophrenic forms and governments don’t allocate enough budget to these therapies making families struggle with these problems with little support.
Then to read Blick´s comment, I can only say: thank you! It´s highly relief that someone can understand your situation.
Also, I agree with Sebastian Coe. Nowadays, the psychiatric hospitals are not horrible places, I think this is a misconception. These centres are absolutely necessary and useful for the patients.
I have visited the center of Versalles, in Aviles, and it´s a beautiful house, with a big garden, a vegetal garden, even there are animals, dogs and rabbits. The problem is that there aren´t enough rooms.
I think this is a very serious problem, with very few solutions.
After reading Tarantula’s comment, I am so sorry to hear it because it reminds me the same case occurred recently in the south of Spain. A schizophrenic person killed his mother, cut her head and after that, he walked through his village holding her head on his hands and talking with it. It sounds so impressive but it is the real life.
When I heard it on the radio, I was quite ashamed of listening that the authorities didn’t do anything in order to help his mother. She wasn’t able to take care about him in the same way as Tarantula has said, the hospitals only admitted him one week and the doctors didn’t have any kind of control if he took his pills or not.
From my point of view if a person has this sort of illness, governments have to have the responsibility of taking care about them in appropriate hospitals where they are controlled if they take the pills or not.
The families, when the illness is more serious, are not able to fight with them, they are no conscious about their disease, and this is the double of difficulty.
Our society must have to understand this kind of people and our government have to help them in order to improve their lives and the families’ lives.
Have you ever thought what this people feel?Sometimes I think about being mad. In my view is the same as being sane!!Because you see your own reality!!You really never become aware of the problem you have because you think you don´t have a problem!You really think that everything you do is normal.This is the big problem this sick people have!With schizophrenia happens the same. When you suffers it, you don´t realize what happens to you, this is the reason because many times they don´t have their pills. A solution?It´s very difficult to finde the proper solution but in my view the best is having medical centers where they can stay and be treated.It´s ridiculuos to think that this centers are the same as prisons!It´s obvious that they need help and we have to protect other people that can be harmed for this problem.
So that’s the point, isn’t it?
I wasn’t so sure about the help this centers may give to the patient. I was quite lost because of the classic view of the madhouse, you know, like in films; but as you say, the aren´t inhuman places.
So now the big deal is to get enough place for all this people. At first I thought that there wasn’t a theoretical solution to this problem, not that there was lack of resources.
In my opinion you lose your right to decide if you can’t see properly what’s the reality. If a schizophrenic decides not to take his pills Goverment should have the authority to obligate him, in order to protect the rest of the citizens. That could sound a little strong, because they aren’t bad persons or anything, but as they can’t take the responsability of their acts someone has to do it.